NOTE: I had the wrong address for car-part.com listed before, I left out the dash. My apologies. This has been corrected.
Also, if you need an immediate answer please visit the Acurazine forum listed below! I don't get to comments very quickly.
What's wrong with my transmission?
Honda V6 transmissions in the early 2000's were plagued with issues. Many 2nd gen TL owners had several replaced under warranty. Honda extended the transmission warranty to 7 years/109,000 miles in response to the flood of issues, but that has long since passed so if your transmission dies now you're on the hook.
The main issues were abnormal clutch wear leading to slipping clutches (usually 3rd gear) and dirty transmission fluid, which will eventually clog the internal filter, solenoid screens, and other areas of the transmission and lead to loss of pressure. The transmission will start slipping while shifting, take a long time to shift into gear, and eventually refuse to engage any gear.
If you think you have a transmission issue, visit the 2nd gen Acurazine forums at http://acurazine.com/forums/second-generation-tl-1999-2003-98 for some help diagnosing your issue. Sometimes issues can be fixed with a fluid change or replacing solenoids/filters/etc. Most likely though if you've reached the point where your transmission refuses to shift, it's gone.
What do I do?
If your transmission has gone out and you need a replacement, there are several options from most expensive to least expensive:
- Go to the dealer and have them put in a new transmission. They will horrendously overcharge you, and will put in a reman unit that will most likely fail again.
- Find a reputable transmission shop to put in a new transmission. If they rebuild your transmission, it will most likely fail again. If they use a reman unit you will have varying degrees of success but it will most likely fail again.
- Find a reputable transmission shop that will perform the AV6 swap (see below). Many shops will refuse since they might not be willing to go through the swap instructions. If they will do it, generally the Acurazine swap DIY (below) is sufficient.
- DIY - If you have the tools and expertise, this is the cheapest route. You should follow the factory shop manual instructions, but I will show below in general what is involved, so you know what to expect and decide whether you can handle the job or not.
What is the AV6 swap?
The AV6 swap involves swapping in a transmission from an Accord V6. This transmission has the exact same gear ratios as the TL Type-S and is virtually a direct bolt on replacement, with some parts that need to be swapped.
In general, Honda 3-shaft 5 speed transmissions are interchangeable. Since Honda made some changes that greatly improved the reliability after 2005, what most people are doing is replacing their 2nd gen TL transmission with a unit sourced from a 2006 or 2007 Honda Accord V6 (non-hybrid). Check car-part.com to search for used transmissions from local junk yards. You can expect to pay between $700-$1000 depending on location and mileage on the transmission.
In general, Honda 3-shaft 5 speed transmissions are interchangeable. Since Honda made some changes that greatly improved the reliability after 2005, what most people are doing is replacing their 2nd gen TL transmission with a unit sourced from a 2006 or 2007 Honda Accord V6 (non-hybrid). Check car-part.com to search for used transmissions from local junk yards. You can expect to pay between $700-$1000 depending on location and mileage on the transmission.
If you decide to swap in a transmission from another model such as an Odyssey or 3rd gen TL, please visit the Acurazine forums and make sure the year/model you are looking at is compatible.
OK I'm ready! What do I need?
- A replacement transmission (car-part.com has quite a few listed, or you can try contacting local salvage yards). It must be from a 2006-2007 Honda Accord V6 non-hybrid, you cannot use the transmission from the 4 cylinder or the hybrid. I got one through LKQ, and would definitely recommend them.
- A new torque converter is recommended. If the replacement transmission has higher miles this will reduce your chances of having any issues in the future. Putting in a new torque converter now will be incredibly easier than later. Personally, I did not do this but my salvage tranny had under 50K miles on it.
Note: There have been some people with 2005 AV6 models reporting that the torque converter will not bolt up to the TL flex plate. An AV6 from a 2005 Accord V6 will work for this swap, however you will need to buy a new torque converter for an '06/'07 Accord V6 transmission, you cannot re-use the existing one. - You will be using your existing fluid warmer on top of the transmission! The new one on the AV6 has hose connectors facing the wrong way. If you follow the shop manual instructions exactly, you will leave the fluid warmer in place in the engine bay and reattach to the AV6 on installation.
- Instructions for swapping over the wiring harness, range sensor, and filter body from your old transmission to the new one (note: while not specified in these instructions, swap over every bracket you find that is different, as most of them are used for wiring harness clips and such - even the dipstick tube & dipstick).
The instructions were originally posted here, along with discussion on the swap: http://acurazine.com/forums/second-generation-tl-1999-2003-98/faq-06-07-av6-transmission-swap-905115/
There are issues with the pictures showing up so I have hosted a PDF of the original instructions here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-g2DV4992tDSE5nMDRseEl5cFk/view?usp=sharing&resourcekey=0-lWkgbDr5o0exEj08YDu3Qg
- Shop instructions for transmission removal/replacement. If you don't have one (and you *really* should have one), you can download a PDF of the shop manual here: http://acurazine.com/forums/2g-tl-problems-fixes-117/2g-factory-tl-shop-repair-manual-852101/. If none of the download links work, please post to the thread. Also, you can try this link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-g2DV4992tDWU9PQnhRVUZtNnM/view?usp=sharing
Refer to pages 847 - 861 in the PDF (manual pages 14-351 through 14-365). I would recommend printing out this page range, and checking off steps as you complete them. This way you should not miss anything.
In addition to the instructions in the manual, I would additionally remove each axle (it adds negligible time and makes things much easier), and remove the driver's side wheel well cover to make sliding the transmission out easier.
- If you are swapping over the old fluid filter as the swap instructions indicate (so you will continue to use the same spin-on type filter), you will want to get these items (I got the gasket/o-rings from hondapartsunlimited.com):
- Passage body gasket (25812-P7W-A01)
- Passage body o-ring (91302-P7W-A00)
- ATF warmer o-rings x 2 (19435-P8E-A01)
- New ATF filter (ATP Filter)
- If you have the transmission out, it is worth checking if your rear main seal is leaking. You will need to remove the flex plate. The seal is part # 91214-P8A-A01. If it is not leaking, leave it be. If it is leaking and you decide to replace it, please seek out another DIY for that.
- Tools! I would recommend having:
- Full socket set, with deep sockets also.
- U-joints and extensions.
- I highly recommend flex head ratchets and long wrenches.
- Two floor jacks, with a transmission cradle for one.
*or* one floor jack plus a hoist for the transmission.
- Jack stands.
- Breaker bar.
- Needle nose or other pliers for getting at wiring harness clips, hose clamps, etc.
- Ball joint separator (OTC 6297 Ball Joint Separator).
- Engine hanger (I used the Astro 5820).
What all is involved in replacing the transmission?
In a nutshell, you will have to:
- Support the engine with an engine hanger
- Remove everything attached to the transmission
- Remove both axles
- Remove the front subframe
- Unbolt the transmission and lower it out from under the car
- Put it all back
Here are some pics of the process. This is meant to show what is involved in replacing a transmission, not as a how-to. I highly recommend following the factory service manual while doing the job.
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| Getting started. I don't have a huge garage but this was plenty. |
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| Everything attached to the transmission or in the way of getting to it must come out. Battery, intake, every wiring harness connector and clip, fluid warmer, etc. |
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| You'll need a breaker bar or impact wrench for the axle nuts. I recommend a ball joint separator for the lower ball joints, but a hammer will work as well if you know what you're doing. |
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| Both axles should be removed to make things easy. |
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| This is the intermediate shaft and bearing. You'll need u-joints and possibly a flex head ratchet to get the last bolt out. |
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| The flex plate is unbolted from the torque converter through this access hole. It helps to have someone turning the crank for you while you remove each bolt. |
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| Engine hanger in place. |
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| Front subframe unbolts and drops out. This is a good time to replace the front engine mount if needed. |
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| With the subframe out of the way, the transmission is supported with a jack and all of the bolts connecting the case to the engine are removed. |
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| Then the transmission is lowered and wheeled out the wheel well. I removed the brake caliper for extra room, and ended up removing the wheel well before installation as well. I had the car jacked up as high as the jack would go, and it was a tight squeeze, but doable. |
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| New AV6 transmission with all required parts swapped over. |
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| One of the hardest parts - getting the new transmission back into place so the pins all line up and slide into place. From then on you're pretty home free. |
The rest is just bolting everything back up and reconnecting the wiring.
Good luck! If everything goes well, you may be able to finish this in a weekend. It is a big job, so don't rush but don't be intimidated. If you get stuck because you don't have a tool that will accomplish what you need to do, stop and think about a different way to do it but don't hesitate to go buy a new tool. You will waste way more time hacking away at something with the wrong tool than buying the right tool, as well as risking breaking something.
Good luck! If everything goes well, you may be able to finish this in a weekend. It is a big job, so don't rush but don't be intimidated. If you get stuck because you don't have a tool that will accomplish what you need to do, stop and think about a different way to do it but don't hesitate to go buy a new tool. You will waste way more time hacking away at something with the wrong tool than buying the right tool, as well as risking breaking something.
The part
ReplyDeleteGreat write up. Thank you.
25812-P7W-A01
On Amazon says it doesn't fit my vehicle. Should the part be for old Acura trans or Honda trans?
Also
If the axels come out, is this a good time to replace them? I have 156000 on the engine ?
Hey, I apologize for the delay in responding! If you look at the part on HPU (http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/oe-acura/25812p7wa01) you can see that it is listed to fit 2000-2006 TL and 2001-2003 CL.
DeleteI would not bother with replacing axles personally, I have 216K on the car and the axles are in great shape. If you replace them with non-OEM parts you'll be downgrading, even with the age of yours. The only caveat here is that I've heard of axles getting corrosion underneath the harmonic dampers and snapping. This seems rare so personally I would just wait until they show signs of issues then replace them.
Thanks for this great write up! I've been doing a lot of reading through Acurazine to get an idea of how to complete the swap, but it helps having everything centered in one place. I have a 2001 Acura CL that has 205k+ on the odometer and my tranny is starting to stick at 3000rpms before shifting on climbs. I'm replacing the 3/4th pressure switches to see if that helps, bit a swap or rebuild may be in my future. Would you be willing to answer a few questions I have via email? If so, I'm at fisher.bentley at gmail. I'd appreciate it. Thanks again for sharing all the info.
ReplyDeleteHey Fisher, I emailed way back but didn't hear back, I hope you got your questions answered.
DeleteThanks for posting this info. I am currently doing the swap and this has proved very useful. I found it easier to remove the intermediate shaft retainer bolts with a box end wrench, using a cheater pipe to break the bolts from the passenger side of the car. And yes, removing the right axle will probably end up saving you time.
ReplyDeleteCool, thanks for the suggestion!
DeleteHi do you need to modify the shifter i have a 00 acura tl base model
ReplyDeleteNope.
DeleteHi do you have to modify the shifter box i have a 00 acura tl base model
ReplyDeleteWill this swap work on an 05 TL AT?
ReplyDeleteI'm almost certain this will work, but you should check Acurazine first.
DeleteIt work for mine
DeleteDo you have the model # for the 06/07 accord transmission? I want to make sure I'm getting the correct model and not something earlier. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteThe transmission code is BAYA. However, this is the same code for the 2005 as well. If you get a 2005 it will work, but the torque converter is the wrong size so you need to purchase the correct one from the '07 model. It's best to try to make sure you get the '06/'07 model in the first place.
DeleteAwesome write up...Acurazine brought me here...I did this job last week...Have not drove it yet tho..hoping for a great outcome
ReplyDeleteI just did this swap and it seems that I'm shifting slow and still have hard shifts. A tranny shop suggested that the speed sensor is out of time maybe. Any suggestions?
ReplyDeleteMake sure the transmission fluid level was topped off correctly by checking the fluid level after driving it. Otherwise I would highly recommend posting on Acurazine 2nd Gen TL forums.
DeleteI did the swap but the tranny is still delayed in shifts and kinda has a mind of its own but it ain't slipping. I used an 06 accord v6 from John nkyard with 120k miles. Tranny shop said there was a difference somewhere in the two trannys and said I should try swapping speed sensors as well. Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI would first make sure your fluid level is correct. Check it after driving the car immediately after turning it off. Level should be in between the two dots.
DeleteSpeed sensor shouldn't make a difference. If fluid level is OK, I would try the following:
- Use the Sonnax solenoid adjustment tool to tighten up the shifts: https://www.sonnax.com/parts/2615-solenoid-adjustment-tool
- Replace 3rd/4th gear pressure sensors.
Good luck, I would really post on Acurazine for more input.
2003 ACURA CL so when you say "replace" transmission that means the mechanic orders all the parts on the schematic and assembles it all together? It's looking like the only trans that come already put together are the "reman" ones. But i am assuming those are using all brand new parts as well.
ReplyDeleteThe only parts that are needed in addition to the replacement transmission are some gaskets and o-rings specified above. All other needed parts are simply swapped from your defective transmission.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDeleteHello guy I hope someone can help me with the replacement of my tranny for my 2003 acura tl
ReplyDeleteI order a tranny from ebay and when the tranny arrive i was getting it ready for installation and i ran with this assistant steering pump that my transmission has but that one I ordered doesn’t have that so i was wondering what you guys think about just bypass the 2 hoses? Please help
Having the same issue. What did you do?
DeleteHi thank you very much for yor help
ReplyDeleteHow to make sure that i have 06-07 transmition
Hi thank you for the information
ReplyDeleteHow to make sure that i have 06-07 transmition
Excellent write up and perfect instructions. Just finished the tear down in about 6 hours. Installation is next. Can’t beat this page for detail simply outstanding, sir.
ReplyDeleteHey Greg,
DeleteI see that we're supposed to use a new torque converter (or one supplied with the new trans). How hard is it to replace the torque converter? I've never touched something that deep inside a transmission before, so I wanted to get an idea of what to expect.
Thanks,
B
Am in the process of trying to look for a good transmission as my 2000 acura tl's transmission is beginning to crap out. i have done the 3x3 flush and refill a long time ago, replaced the shift solenoids, and regularly replace the fluid with honda's synthetic oil. but it continues to slip on the second gear when i start driving from a slightly inclined hill. i have maintened this car so much and it would be a shame to get rid of it just because of a badly made tranny. i am currently looking for a good 06/07 accord trans (the carpart.com website didnt load for me).
ReplyDeletethank you for this wonderful write up for people like me. you have no idea how much it helps us out :)
The correct address is car-part.com with a dash. Good luck!
DeleteFantastic work in this post! I know I’m late to the party but I have a quick question. Without the engine hanger, will the engine just fall out? Or will it be supported without an engine hanger?
ReplyDeleteWithout the hanger the engine and tranny would sag out the bottom and probably break off hoses and wiring harness bits.
DeleteWorking on an '07 Honda V6 trans swap for my 2003 Acura TL.
ReplyDeleteMy original tranny has an assistant steering pump but the '07 Honda trans doesn’t have this provision.
Can I simply bypass the 2 hoses?
Or is there another solution for this difference?
1 important detail has me confused. You never explained why the donor av6 tranny cannot come from a hybrid model? All I can manage to find online and locally are all from hybrids.
ReplyDeleteThe hybrid has a completely different transmission with an integrated electric motor.
DeleteWhere do new orings and gaskets go?
ReplyDeleteThey are used when swapping over the filter assembly.
DeleteDoes av6 have LSD? Anything have to be done with computer? Is it compatible with vsa on 03 type s? New to all this love my tl but transmission woes.
ReplyDeleteIt does not. Nothing has to be done with the computer, everything works exactly as before. VSA/sportshift/etc are all controlled by the car's computer not the transmission.
DeleteIs there a way to tell if the transmission I'm purchasing is hybrid or non-hybrid by using VIN?
ReplyDeleteI was told by a mechanic that the 04 odyssey transmission will fit in 2003 acura tl..
ReplyDeleteIt should fit, probably not the best replacement but I'm told it will work.
DeleteMy mech is currently swapping 07 V6 Accord trans (supposedly) with BAYA code into my 03 TL-S, saying trans is bolted to engine but flex plate & TC nowhere near lining up, haven’t heard of this any ideas please? ceaston12@gmail.com or 2673729068 Chris if anyone knows thanks
ReplyDeletecould i swap my 2005 3.2l v6 transmission out for a 2008 type s transmission? is there any way at all to make it possible if i have every part from the 2008 car? its just wrecked. and my 2005 transmission wont engage at all. i have read different things and cant seem to find a definitive answer
ReplyDeleteSuper Greg, how many miles have you logged on the replacement tranny?
ReplyDeleteI replaced the tranny at 208k miles, currently have 244K and working great. I did a 3x3 drain & fill at 238K and will keep doing that every 30K.
DeleteRemoving the lower ball joints is one of the toughest part of this job. It can be made very EASY by doing something like this:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0Y7AUAS-Xg
I used a socket of the correct size, but it worked like a charm!
Great suggestion!
DeleteFirst I want to thank all that have posted the information regarding the AV6 swap
ReplyDeletesorry to add yet another post to this thread but I want to dot all my i's and cross all the t's before I start wrenching....here's my story
2003 TL Type S.....death code P0740.....I cleaned all the screens on the solenoids but didn't do the 3/3 flush or change the filter, still not shifting correctly....I see those steps as just kicking the can down the road and would prefer to implement a more permanent solution so I picked up a BAYA from a local salvage yard for $600. I was told it was from a 2007 Accord 3.0 AT. While looking at TC's, most of the application specs list a 114 tooth flex....the one that came with the trans from the salvage has 121 teeth on the flex. I'm thinking it's possible this salvage trans is not from a 2007 but possibly a 2005 as that's the only parts listing I can find for 121 tooth flex plates, nevertheless the trans ID sticker does verify it's a BAYA - 9029604. I ordered a new TC for a 2007 which did specify for BAYA trans (should be delivered in a few days) I have not removed the trans form the TL yet but will follow the directions posted by 666Wokker in the beginning of this thread and swap the fluid heater, sensors, switches and replumb the power steering lines.
here's the pieces I'm missing...…
1st.....which flex plate should be used with this swap, 114 or 121 tooth.
2nd.....I plan to rebuild the BAYA trans (salvage yard guy said the odometer showed 140k on the donor car), have watched several videos on the subject and am confident it's a project I can handle. Does anyone know if there are any performance or reliability upgrades out there or is just the standard rebuild the best option going.
3rd.....My research is showing the BAYA trans was used between 2003 and 2007 for Accord 3.0 V6 but most of the posts in this thread specifically state a swap from wither 2006 or 2007. Was there a difference in the BAYA trans for '03-'05 and '06-'07?
4th......If the donor BAYA I have is not from an '06-'07 but still a BAYA will a TC from an '07 still work without issue (hope so cause it's what I ordered)
any other comments or direction is always welcome
Thanks
3. From the info above, it seems Honda has upgraded the internals/passages after 2005.
DeleteDoes this work for the CL type s as well?
ReplyDeletedid it work? It should. same motor and engine bay is the same I believe. I am about to do this on mine right now. Damn CL trans has gone out for the last time. Time for the upgrade
Deletehey, can you let us know how the swap worked?
DeleteAlso, I have heard that the accord BAYA tranny doesn't have a sensor on the top like the CL tranny does? Is this true? If so, how did you get around this?
Thanks in advance!
any updates?
DeleteDoes it have to be a BAYA TRANSMISSION? Can it have a MAYA designation?
ReplyDeleteUse BAYA only.
DeleteWill a 2008 honda civic transmission work on a 2003 acura tl s type 3.2?
ReplyDeleteIf it's not a BAYA transmission then no.
DeleteI have a 01 tl I got a transmission from a jdm supplier that sold me a 06 tl transmission he said it will work fine I hope so
ReplyDeleteHey there, working on the AV6 swap now. Did you reuse your TL axles and intermediate shaft? My TL axles seem slightly too long to put back into the knuckle.
ReplyDeleteYes I used my original axles my was auto
ReplyDelete